by Michael Smith
The Financial Times has started using the word "austerity" in many of its headlines – and charity shops, the face of the second hand market in Britain, are experiencing a buying boom.
On the other hand a fair – though not so fair in other terms – of retailers, the purveyors of brand new things, have gone bankrupt, in liquidation or receivership, such as Woolworth, MFI and some other well known names.
Does this mean we are saturated with stuff?
The answer to this could be a probably maybe. But the truth, more than likely, is that people, that is all of us, are feeling the squeeze as with the recession and the prices for fuel and everything going up and up.
Do we still need to keep on spending on new things to keep the economy moving?
While the economic whizkids, who got us into this mess in the first place or who simply were so blind that they could not see it coming, and especially the powers that be, tell us to go and shop till we drop, basically, to help those ailing capitalist economies of ours, the truth is that we cannot do so. First off the environment must be considered for if we don't it does not matter what we do; we may no longer have a habitable planet. Secondly there is no money there and no credit to be had – not that one should work on the credit thing anyway – so how do the powers that be think that people can go out and spend, spend, spend.
Is designed obsolescence soon to be obsolete? Or should we keep on refreshing our material possessions to keep the economy moving?
In other words, the question is, "Is reuse good for the economy?"
I know that the government of this country – and, so it wold appear, also of other countries – is trying to create stimulus for us to keep on spending, and spending and spending; spending our way out of the recession, so they say. Personally I do not think that that will work.
Alternatively, maybe, just maybe, the economy is so far up the creek that we should consider building an alternative one and slowly migrate over to it.
There is no way, in my opinion, but then again I am no economist, that we can administer CPR to this troubled economy by spending as much as possible. It will not work and, well, do we have the money to do so, and, do we really need more stuff (only to throw other stuff into the garbage then).
Paul Smith of the Furniture Reuse Network (FRN) certainly advocates that reuse is a good thing but you might argue his focus is short-term and on real people rather than on the long-term health of the more abstract economy?
To some degree, methinks, the reason that the economy is in the dire straights that it is in because people and the planet were taken out of the equation by the the bankers and financiers and the big capitalists and especially the multi-nationals. As soon as you do that, that is to say to remove the people and the planet out of the equation as far as economy, and not just the economy, is concerned you head for severe trouble and so we did. Greed was all that fueled the banks and all that seems to have fueled industry and now we reap the whirlwind. But it is the little man an d the environment that suffers and not the fat cats. While we, the taxpayers, have to bail out the banks and certain sectors of industry, those who got everyone into that mess still award themselves fat multi-million pound bonuses and such payments. But I digressed somewhat.
Given that the governments of the world are doing everything they can to get spending going again it would seem that the powers that be certainly do not want reuse as a general practice, despite their “reduce, reuse, recycle” message about waste management, to take place. They want new cars, new houses, new washing machines, plasma screen TVs, MS Vista 09 and every other material (and immaterial thing) that generates jobs to start moving again. I mean, how many more sofas, TVs, etc. do we need. No, your old PC is not obsolete as yet, regardless of what the folks in Redmond try telling you. All you need is an operating system that works with less resources, e.g. lower processor speed, such as Linux.
There is no doubt in my mind that the economy is shrinking – and for everything that is reused that is one less thing that is made from scratch – environment 1 - economy nil. The same applies for re-purposing. But, as said, the powers that be do not seem to want this to happen, in all honesty, despite their pratter.
Artificially encouraging spending with the policy and print runs at the mint is only going to produce artificial demand – which in turn, produces artificial economy. It is the same as the alcoholic having a drink to get rid of the jitters - the junkie shooting up to avoid the come down. The example of Zimbabwe should also be obvious enough.
Grow your own, repair before replace, live lightly. Using and producing less is a global objective, or at least so it should be.
While it might be painful, painful for all of us, I do think that we have to go through this and kick the habit of waste and spend, spend, spend. I say reuse, don't refuse!
To some this may appear to be a stark choice between two paths, but is it really. We all know, at least those of us with some common sense, that business as usual will not be solving the problems we face. On the other hand, massive economic shifts in short periods of time seem to cause significant unrest and violence, do they not?
Then again, the choices here may not be as stark as some may think. Re-use often needs testing,such as in the case of electrical goods, and sometimes repair. These are key skills that allow re-use organizations to train and employ people. There is also a danger that the economic interest are short term. We live on a finite piece of rock with finite resources the longer we can keep items and resources in circulation the longer we will be able to have an economy at all. It is not a choice between the environment and the economy but a choice between short and long term thinking and, most importantly, survival.
Thus, in a reuse economy there are actually just as many jobs and transactions – just different skills and tills. An important thing wold be if we could but remember en mass some of the skills we have lost and then, maybe, get around to relearning some of those – all important, in my view anyway – skills and trades.
I would also like to add that I think that it would take us quite a while to use up what there is to reuse at the present time. It would be healthy to reuse as long as possible until we have thought up a way to a durable economy. It would also give the overexploited countries a chance to recenter themselves on their own needs and their own resources without having to hope that they can carry on pampering our so-called 'needs'. It is our own responsibility to live on what we have around us. We also have plenty of great skills and can learn some more too.
Being, as I said before, from a rather large Gypsy family, the reuse issue has always been part of us and that not just because we were a large family. In fact the Gypsy people recycled before the word was even invented. We made things from virtually nothing to sell at fairs, markets and door-to-door, and we reworked “trash” into goods people wanted to buy. Another kind of economy.
© M Smith (Veshengro) February 2009
<>
Showing posts with label economy. Show all posts
Showing posts with label economy. Show all posts
Spending our way out of the downturn
by Michael Smith
For years and years, especially as regards to the environment and such, we have now been told to get away from being too much of a consumer and consumption society and now, with an economic crises at hand, for it no longer just looming, folks – it has well and truly arrived, we are encouraged by various government measures to go out and spend, spend, spend. Doh?
I personally cannot see how this spend, spend, spend, thing is, supposed, to help the economy and I also cannot see people doing it. What I can see people doing is in fact to hold on to their money in the hope that things are going to get cheaper still., and things will in the end. We are headed, in Britain at least, rapidly for deflation and this means that things will get cheaper and cheaper and people, and that is human nature, are NOT going to buy something now, this very moment when, more than likely, the same product if 20% cheaper by next week or so.
The British Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretary of State for Finance, Alistair Darling, has decided that is exactly what they are trying to do, namely to get the public to go out and spend and spend. With this in mind he has reduced the VAT, the sales tax, by 2.5% from 17.5% to 15%, something which has caused nothing bu extra work and cost for retailers who had to adjust all their tills and all their prices. What he should have done instead, if he thinks that lower taxes will make people go out and spend their way out of a recession – not that that is going to work – is to lower the income tax, especially for the lower earners. But he did not do that.
Other governments in the developed world are implementing or are considering similar fiscal measures. The problem is that, so I see it, this is going to do absolutely nothing; nothing whatsoever, and we will be in a recession and deflationary depression faster than we can imagine by going down this route.
OK, I admit, I am no financial whizkid now expert or analyst but I can sure see the writing on the wall and I can see what people are going to do. They are going to say “thanks, Chancellor” and the money will stay in their accounts or pockets.
In times as uncertain as these no one in their right mind is going to go on a spending spree to help the general economy; they are going to tighten their purse strings for the “just in case”.
We are also currently in the, what could be called, “austerity chique” in which even the better off and those with a job are digging up their gardens, or quite a sizable chunk of it, in order to plant and grow vegetables for themselves and their families. Some do it for reasons of wanting some more organic vegetables and also wanting to know where the food actually comes from and what is it it, and others also may do it because it is at present the in thing to do.
This thing of “spend, spend, spend” is morally irresponsible and unsustainable as most of the people of this country and, I guess the same is also true in other countries, and the country itself are deep in debt, to banks and credit card companies. However, we do not seem to learn the moral lesson from this and the government is trying to simply get people to spend more and more. This is simply not sustainable and sustainability is not just something that we must look at as far as the environment is concerned. Our entire life must be, once again, sustainable but it is not – presently – and the government, as said, is not helping here by encouraging spending in order to, hopefully, revitalize the economy. Revitalize it in what way, that must be the question. For corporate greed to be able to continue as is?
The truth is, as said before, that the common punter is not going to go out and spend any money that they may b e “handed” by the government. The current huge amount of government borrowing by the British government as much as others, though the British seem to be one of those that really think that they can get out of problems by borrowing such humongous sums, is not sustainable and means that the public will be hit by tax hikes in the not so distant future. In view of the fact that such borrowings, as said, means more taxes to pay for this later, people are not going to go out onto the High Street and spend all this money that they are receiving by cuts in VAT and such. They are going to keep some of it if not indeed most of it back for the “in case”.
A “spend, spend, spend” approach that we are being encouraged to take up is a non-sustainable way to go and it much be discouraged rather than encouraged.
Are the government of this country, and others, really thinking that we can buy ourselves out of an economic downturn?
Apparently yes. Cloud Cuckoo Land comes to mind, does it not.
Instead of telling the people to take steps and protect themselves in this economic downturn and to make provisions they think that if people will go out with a little extra money and spend that in High Street shops and the department stores of this country. It is NOT going to make any difference and people are not going to go out and spend, spend, spend.
We are seeing already that they are not going to that. Instead they are holding back, though sales have not completely gone down the drain as yet on the High Street, but then it is the Christmas period and also stores are having pre-Christmas sales to lure the punters in.
People are going, and that is becoming slowly obvious, to hold back in general with spending, waiting for prices to fall further. This means that we are headed towards deflation in due course and instead of the economy picking up it will be doing the opposite. And as soon as this is going to become evident to people they will hold back even more when it comes to spending on the non-essentials.
Talks about prices going down does not seem to be working, as yet, at least not as far as food stuffs is concerned. Here prices seem to be still on the up in most places if not indeed all.
Oil prices, on the other hand, do seem to be falling, and not just in the global wholesale market. Even at the pumps we are seeing prices coming down. Whether that will also be seen as price reductions to the home energy consumer, as regards electricity and gas remains to be seen. The problem simply is that the energy companies are way too greedy, even those that claim to have ethics.
But whatever, we cannot spend ourselves out of an economic downturn that is about 2 seconds away from a recession and not all that far from a depression even. It is just the same madness as the way we have dealt with the natural resources. We have spent, spent, spent until now everything is polluted and nigh on gone.
There is only one way out; on both counts: Cutting back and living a simpler life. Period.
© M Smith (Veshengro), December 2008
<>
For years and years, especially as regards to the environment and such, we have now been told to get away from being too much of a consumer and consumption society and now, with an economic crises at hand, for it no longer just looming, folks – it has well and truly arrived, we are encouraged by various government measures to go out and spend, spend, spend. Doh?
I personally cannot see how this spend, spend, spend, thing is, supposed, to help the economy and I also cannot see people doing it. What I can see people doing is in fact to hold on to their money in the hope that things are going to get cheaper still., and things will in the end. We are headed, in Britain at least, rapidly for deflation and this means that things will get cheaper and cheaper and people, and that is human nature, are NOT going to buy something now, this very moment when, more than likely, the same product if 20% cheaper by next week or so.
The British Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretary of State for Finance, Alistair Darling, has decided that is exactly what they are trying to do, namely to get the public to go out and spend and spend. With this in mind he has reduced the VAT, the sales tax, by 2.5% from 17.5% to 15%, something which has caused nothing bu extra work and cost for retailers who had to adjust all their tills and all their prices. What he should have done instead, if he thinks that lower taxes will make people go out and spend their way out of a recession – not that that is going to work – is to lower the income tax, especially for the lower earners. But he did not do that.
Other governments in the developed world are implementing or are considering similar fiscal measures. The problem is that, so I see it, this is going to do absolutely nothing; nothing whatsoever, and we will be in a recession and deflationary depression faster than we can imagine by going down this route.
OK, I admit, I am no financial whizkid now expert or analyst but I can sure see the writing on the wall and I can see what people are going to do. They are going to say “thanks, Chancellor” and the money will stay in their accounts or pockets.
In times as uncertain as these no one in their right mind is going to go on a spending spree to help the general economy; they are going to tighten their purse strings for the “just in case”.
We are also currently in the, what could be called, “austerity chique” in which even the better off and those with a job are digging up their gardens, or quite a sizable chunk of it, in order to plant and grow vegetables for themselves and their families. Some do it for reasons of wanting some more organic vegetables and also wanting to know where the food actually comes from and what is it it, and others also may do it because it is at present the in thing to do.
This thing of “spend, spend, spend” is morally irresponsible and unsustainable as most of the people of this country and, I guess the same is also true in other countries, and the country itself are deep in debt, to banks and credit card companies. However, we do not seem to learn the moral lesson from this and the government is trying to simply get people to spend more and more. This is simply not sustainable and sustainability is not just something that we must look at as far as the environment is concerned. Our entire life must be, once again, sustainable but it is not – presently – and the government, as said, is not helping here by encouraging spending in order to, hopefully, revitalize the economy. Revitalize it in what way, that must be the question. For corporate greed to be able to continue as is?
The truth is, as said before, that the common punter is not going to go out and spend any money that they may b e “handed” by the government. The current huge amount of government borrowing by the British government as much as others, though the British seem to be one of those that really think that they can get out of problems by borrowing such humongous sums, is not sustainable and means that the public will be hit by tax hikes in the not so distant future. In view of the fact that such borrowings, as said, means more taxes to pay for this later, people are not going to go out onto the High Street and spend all this money that they are receiving by cuts in VAT and such. They are going to keep some of it if not indeed most of it back for the “in case”.
A “spend, spend, spend” approach that we are being encouraged to take up is a non-sustainable way to go and it much be discouraged rather than encouraged.
Are the government of this country, and others, really thinking that we can buy ourselves out of an economic downturn?
Apparently yes. Cloud Cuckoo Land comes to mind, does it not.
Instead of telling the people to take steps and protect themselves in this economic downturn and to make provisions they think that if people will go out with a little extra money and spend that in High Street shops and the department stores of this country. It is NOT going to make any difference and people are not going to go out and spend, spend, spend.
We are seeing already that they are not going to that. Instead they are holding back, though sales have not completely gone down the drain as yet on the High Street, but then it is the Christmas period and also stores are having pre-Christmas sales to lure the punters in.
People are going, and that is becoming slowly obvious, to hold back in general with spending, waiting for prices to fall further. This means that we are headed towards deflation in due course and instead of the economy picking up it will be doing the opposite. And as soon as this is going to become evident to people they will hold back even more when it comes to spending on the non-essentials.
Talks about prices going down does not seem to be working, as yet, at least not as far as food stuffs is concerned. Here prices seem to be still on the up in most places if not indeed all.
Oil prices, on the other hand, do seem to be falling, and not just in the global wholesale market. Even at the pumps we are seeing prices coming down. Whether that will also be seen as price reductions to the home energy consumer, as regards electricity and gas remains to be seen. The problem simply is that the energy companies are way too greedy, even those that claim to have ethics.
But whatever, we cannot spend ourselves out of an economic downturn that is about 2 seconds away from a recession and not all that far from a depression even. It is just the same madness as the way we have dealt with the natural resources. We have spent, spent, spent until now everything is polluted and nigh on gone.
There is only one way out; on both counts: Cutting back and living a simpler life. Period.
© M Smith (Veshengro), December 2008
<>
Automakers bail out failed
by Michael Smith
Washington, DC., December 12, 2008: The bail out desired by the US automobile makers such as GM, Ford, and others did not go through in the US Senate and was rejected.
In the light of this the market has taken a nose dive on Friday, December 12, 2008, and it can only be expected to get worse. This aside from the fact that, if he automakers cannot get finance from other sources, we will be seeing a lot more job losses in the USA, and elsewhere, such as the UK, as this will be having a knock-on effect with the subsidiaries of those companies over this side of the pond, that is to say Ford and Vauxhall, in the UK, for instance.
That kind of direct knock-on effect aside there will be a far great knock-on effect hitting home as well, as an difficulties with the automakers will also affect those companies that supply products to them.
Very much like the toppling dominoes this spells real problems for the economy, and not just for the US economy or that of Britain.
On the other hand, had the US government given the automakers the desired billions then they would have to go and help out others as well.
In the UK and the USA a bailout of the banking system started this all and while the reason for the banking bailout may just about make sense in that a collapse of the banks, and especially more or less the entire banking system, would have crippled not just the economies of the respective countries and much more, other bailouts just do not make sense.
No government, theoretically, can go and say “we bail out the banks and the automakers, but no one else”. That certainly would not go down very well indeed and it is something that cannot be done. Otherwise the likes of Woolworth too, where in the UK alone 30,000 jobs are at stake, also needs to be bailed out and this would then mean each and every business affected would, automatically, qualify for government assistance. That, I do not think, could be done.
Hence, while it may be cruel, aside from the banks no other businesses should be able to even get as far as the automakers did get. There is no limitless supply of money there and we must not even contemplate the idea of printing more money to finance such efforts. It does not work.
As harsh as it may sound, many businesses just have not been very prudent when times were good and have been throwing money about left, right and center to CEOs and the likes. Those people were on salaries of millions and were given annual bonuses in the millions but nothing was invested really into the companies and nothing was laid up “for a rainy day”. While CEOs ended up with salaries in the millions and bonuses in the same region the poor workers were given a pittance compared to those salaries.
It is now, unfortunately, as always, the poor workers who are going to have to take the brunt for it will be them that end up losing their jobs while the fat cats have enough money stashed away to make a lovely retirement without having to worry. But then, what's new about that? Was is not always the same.
There is a depression coming, folks, and it is time to batten down the hatches. Prepare while you still have the funds to do so and, where you can, get a garden going to have at least some food that you can grow.
Also have a look at how you can protect you own assets and what skills you have that can get you some additional finances and skills that you can use for providing for yourself and your family in time of crisis. The crisis which appears to be just over the horizon.
The British PM Gordon Brown and his Chancellor Alistair Darling try telling the people – and the world – that this is only a little recession and that there is no full blown depression looming but to most of us common people, I am sure, it would appear that the dreaded “D”-word is just a short way away.
Be prepared, must be the motto and we must look at what we can do to aid ourselves. No government is going to come along to help. We are already now, in Britain, being prepared for the fact that there is going to be virtually no unemployment benefit going to be paid in due course and that everyone will have to do some slave labor to get the little bit of money that is currently called “job seeker's allowance”, the dole as it was once known as.
The Subotnik idea was spoken about some years back and that is also still in the offing in which every one is supposed to do some forced voluntary work “for the good of the community”. This is, no doubt, going to come to a community near all of us in due course. “Pre-warned is pre-armed”, as the motto of the old Royal Observer Corps used to go.
© M Smith (Veshengro), December 2008
<>
Washington, DC., December 12, 2008: The bail out desired by the US automobile makers such as GM, Ford, and others did not go through in the US Senate and was rejected.
In the light of this the market has taken a nose dive on Friday, December 12, 2008, and it can only be expected to get worse. This aside from the fact that, if he automakers cannot get finance from other sources, we will be seeing a lot more job losses in the USA, and elsewhere, such as the UK, as this will be having a knock-on effect with the subsidiaries of those companies over this side of the pond, that is to say Ford and Vauxhall, in the UK, for instance.
That kind of direct knock-on effect aside there will be a far great knock-on effect hitting home as well, as an difficulties with the automakers will also affect those companies that supply products to them.
Very much like the toppling dominoes this spells real problems for the economy, and not just for the US economy or that of Britain.
On the other hand, had the US government given the automakers the desired billions then they would have to go and help out others as well.
In the UK and the USA a bailout of the banking system started this all and while the reason for the banking bailout may just about make sense in that a collapse of the banks, and especially more or less the entire banking system, would have crippled not just the economies of the respective countries and much more, other bailouts just do not make sense.
No government, theoretically, can go and say “we bail out the banks and the automakers, but no one else”. That certainly would not go down very well indeed and it is something that cannot be done. Otherwise the likes of Woolworth too, where in the UK alone 30,000 jobs are at stake, also needs to be bailed out and this would then mean each and every business affected would, automatically, qualify for government assistance. That, I do not think, could be done.
Hence, while it may be cruel, aside from the banks no other businesses should be able to even get as far as the automakers did get. There is no limitless supply of money there and we must not even contemplate the idea of printing more money to finance such efforts. It does not work.
As harsh as it may sound, many businesses just have not been very prudent when times were good and have been throwing money about left, right and center to CEOs and the likes. Those people were on salaries of millions and were given annual bonuses in the millions but nothing was invested really into the companies and nothing was laid up “for a rainy day”. While CEOs ended up with salaries in the millions and bonuses in the same region the poor workers were given a pittance compared to those salaries.
It is now, unfortunately, as always, the poor workers who are going to have to take the brunt for it will be them that end up losing their jobs while the fat cats have enough money stashed away to make a lovely retirement without having to worry. But then, what's new about that? Was is not always the same.
There is a depression coming, folks, and it is time to batten down the hatches. Prepare while you still have the funds to do so and, where you can, get a garden going to have at least some food that you can grow.
Also have a look at how you can protect you own assets and what skills you have that can get you some additional finances and skills that you can use for providing for yourself and your family in time of crisis. The crisis which appears to be just over the horizon.
The British PM Gordon Brown and his Chancellor Alistair Darling try telling the people – and the world – that this is only a little recession and that there is no full blown depression looming but to most of us common people, I am sure, it would appear that the dreaded “D”-word is just a short way away.
Be prepared, must be the motto and we must look at what we can do to aid ourselves. No government is going to come along to help. We are already now, in Britain, being prepared for the fact that there is going to be virtually no unemployment benefit going to be paid in due course and that everyone will have to do some slave labor to get the little bit of money that is currently called “job seeker's allowance”, the dole as it was once known as.
The Subotnik idea was spoken about some years back and that is also still in the offing in which every one is supposed to do some forced voluntary work “for the good of the community”. This is, no doubt, going to come to a community near all of us in due course. “Pre-warned is pre-armed”, as the motto of the old Royal Observer Corps used to go.
© M Smith (Veshengro), December 2008
<>
Salvaged food
What, you ask, do I mean by salvaged food? Let me tell you, it ain't for the ultra fastidious or the weak of stomach.
Many stores and greengrocers (produce stores) will through out bags and boxes of fruits and veggies that my have one or two bad apples, potatoes, tomatoes, whatever, rather than sort through it and re-bag. A lot, and I mean a lot, goes into the dumpster.
Much can be salvaged, and what cannot, can either be fed to the chickens or pig, put in the compost pile. Nothing should go to waste!
We have a small produce store that has told us to just go through the dumpster and take whatever we want. Recently we took home 4 flats of strawberries, a box of apricots, three pineapples, a bunch of rhubarb, two boxes of green grapes, two eggplants, several cantaloupes, and an onion.
My wife made over twenty jars of jam, syrup, and preserves out of the strawberries. Several jars of apricot butter, also peach butter(I forgot to mention them, and several mangoes). She is drying the rhubarb for future pies. She is canning the grapes for future use also. The onion we'll use in cooking, the small head of cabbage will become coleslaw. So you have to sort through it and cut out the bad spots, Think of all the fruits and veggies you'll have with no money out of your pocket, just a little work.
Now some will say, "But that's garbage!". Have you ever toured a canning plant, checked the label on some sausages. I once bought some chorizo that was made from hog salivary glands, snouts, and other assorted parts that if I had read the ingredients before, I certainly would not have bought it.
With the economic upheaval we are experiencing now, getting food this way might become more rewarding. Just be sure to tell them you want it for your chickens, pig, or compost pile. If you tell them you're going to eat it, they won't give it to you because of the possibility of getting sued if some one gets sick. Use some discretion here. Happy food gathering!
OWEN NEWMAN 2008
Many stores and greengrocers (produce stores) will through out bags and boxes of fruits and veggies that my have one or two bad apples, potatoes, tomatoes, whatever, rather than sort through it and re-bag. A lot, and I mean a lot, goes into the dumpster.
Much can be salvaged, and what cannot, can either be fed to the chickens or pig, put in the compost pile. Nothing should go to waste!
We have a small produce store that has told us to just go through the dumpster and take whatever we want. Recently we took home 4 flats of strawberries, a box of apricots, three pineapples, a bunch of rhubarb, two boxes of green grapes, two eggplants, several cantaloupes, and an onion.
My wife made over twenty jars of jam, syrup, and preserves out of the strawberries. Several jars of apricot butter, also peach butter(I forgot to mention them, and several mangoes). She is drying the rhubarb for future pies. She is canning the grapes for future use also. The onion we'll use in cooking, the small head of cabbage will become coleslaw. So you have to sort through it and cut out the bad spots, Think of all the fruits and veggies you'll have with no money out of your pocket, just a little work.
Now some will say, "But that's garbage!". Have you ever toured a canning plant, checked the label on some sausages. I once bought some chorizo that was made from hog salivary glands, snouts, and other assorted parts that if I had read the ingredients before, I certainly would not have bought it.
With the economic upheaval we are experiencing now, getting food this way might become more rewarding. Just be sure to tell them you want it for your chickens, pig, or compost pile. If you tell them you're going to eat it, they won't give it to you because of the possibility of getting sued if some one gets sick. Use some discretion here. Happy food gathering!
OWEN NEWMAN 2008
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